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[Blog] The Corner Turned But Prejudice Remains
Written by jbb on Wednesday, 28th Apr 2010 12:53

There is no doubt that the corner was turned recently in the Roy Keane era at the club, and not just regarding results on the field of play. The recent comments by Simon Clegg signal the end of a story that has lasted almost the entire season.

Was the manager going to survive? Such speculation was inevitable after the disastrous start. Although results picked up from the end of October onwards, it was only last week that the chief executive finally put to bed any doubts that the manager, barring any major mishaps, will be given the opportunity to see out his contract.

Too much can be read into the last Saturday’s result only in the sense that there could not be the same intensity compared to a game where relegation, promotion or the league title were at stake. Since the end of October, and since the turn of the year in particular, the team has developed into a much more compact, organised and spirited unit, who are competitive against any Championship team. The league table supports that view. A continuation of that form, without much further improvement, will leave the club in contention for the play-off positions next season.

Positive points from the season: 1. The club made a disastrous start, which created huge pressures on players and manager. Expectation had been built up. That start was due to the upheaval in the club, and very poor form from some key players. That presented a real test of mettle for all concerned. Far more is learned in that situation than if the club had cruised along in mid table all season. The manager has now been able to identify core players, that he and the club can trust in any situation, and all will be tougher for the experience.

2. The emergence of Connor Wickham. The manager deserves some credit here, for fast forwarding his development, when many were wondering if the player was ready.

3. Good organisation and defensive solidity, with a strong spine emerging in B Murphy, McAuley, Delaney, Norris, Leadbitter , D Murphy, Wickham.

4. Leadership quality of Jonathan Walters. While his form can rightly be criticised at times, there can be little doubt that the manager has correctly identified great leadership qualities from a player who commands the full respect of his fellow players.

5. Evidence of a very strong team spirit emerging and a strong work ethic, which is vital.

6. Good value signings or loan signings such as Delaney, B Murphy, O’Connor, Leadbitter, Colback, Lee Barratt and D Murphy.

Negative points:

1. Obviously the lack of goals.

2. The poor form of new signings Edwards, Martin and Priskin together with existing players such as Counago, Garvan, Quinn, Bruce and R. Wright.

3. A lack of flair in the team.

4. Perhaps the manager’s intensity, focus and competitiveness, at times places too much pressure on some players, particularly big money signings who may already feel the pressure of their fees.

It is clear that the vast majority of supporters are very much behind the team and management. There is an element, not that surprisingly after a mediocre season, who have doubts about the manager. There is a further small element, very evident on this site, who appear to have a clear prejudice against him, who are incapable of distinguishing the manager from the Man Utd enforcer he was, and form an objective opinion of him as manager.

A clear sign of this is when the goalposts start moving. For most of the season many were predicting relegation. When a mid-table position is achieved, the debate starts to revolve around the style of play.

For me, you always start with developing a solid base. All of the manager’s clubs as a player were footballing ones, Forest, United and Celtic. I have no doubt what his preferred style of play is. His priority though will be to develop a winning team, and style will follow, but after the club has established itself in the Premier League again.

Unfortunately when that happens, that small element, such is their prejudice, will still not give the manager any credit. He will have spent too much money, he will have bought too many Sunderland players etc etc etc.

Finally, a little idle speculation about the future. Nicky Butt would be an excellent signing. It may involve changing the formation, but 4-5-1 worked well last Saturday, and most top teams now play with three central midfielders (I don’t think Norris/Leadbitter are natural holding players. With Butt alongside them, I think those two would storm through next season, and would score goals as well).

A former Keane signing Roy O’Donovan is scoring almost a goal a game in League One and could be a useful player from the bench. Lee Naylor from Celtic would fit the bill as an attacking left-back. All three are available on frees.

As a right full-back Phil Bardsley is a very strong defensive player who could also cover Gareth McAuley, but a bit limited from football point of view, although I don’t think he is out of contract.

Carlos Edwards has international experience at right full-back, and if it’s a five-man midfield, attacking full-backs are required. His long striding style may be better suited to attacking from deep, rather than the wing where he finds it hard to create space (a change of position worked wonders for Damien Delaney). Otherwise he may be on his way out.

Daryl Murphy should be signed, he provides a focal point up front that Jon Stead couldn’t do in the past. He has been a key part of the team. We haven’t yet seen the best of him. We cannot rely solely on a 17-year-old.

Prediction for next season: Top six and promotion. The Butt and Daryl Murphy signings are key.




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TownLad added 13:48 - Apr 28
Spot on i think, Daryl Murphy for one mill for a "premiership" player isnt too bad aslong as he proves his hunger for football during pre season, hooper OR chopra or someone along those lines is a MUST, we need a goal scorer with wickham or murphy with them. Regards to the players who havnt played well, Martin and Priskin i believe will do very well in a confident team, Martin can run at players on the left if he knows there isnt as much pressure if he loses the ball as the defence is solid now, same with priskin, if we play to his style of off the last man he can defintly score goals for us i think, COYB!
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CaptainObvious added 14:01 - Apr 28
This idea that people have a prejudice against Keane is total nonsense. We're finishing in the bottom half when the target was a play-off place - something the last manager was sacked for not achieving despite improving or maintaining league position in every season. There is therefore bound to be criticism that is justified.

This season may well turn out to be a transitional season as a springboard for success next season. Or it might not and we flop again. Until the former is realised, no corner has been turned, only ground regained that wasn't lost before the arrival.
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hype313 added 14:59 - Apr 28
"There is a further small element, very evident on this site, who appear to have a clear prejudice against him, who are incapable of distinguishing the manager from the Man Utd enforcer he was, and form an objective opinion of him as manager." I personally have no prejudice against him and I can certainly form an objective opinion of him - He is a hard nosed winner,with a single bloody mindness and has always has been, and quite rightly a legend at Old Trafford. BUT that is fine when you are playing at the top level, with top players week in week out, not when you are managing a group of players who are nowhere near the standard he was with the same mentallity and desire to succed as he did. This is why players dont like playing for him and this is why there is dressing room unrest, Like it or not the guy is a bull in a china shop and I, for one hopes he succeeds for ITFC sake, but I dont like being patronised by some wannabe gabriel marcotti thanks.
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mightytown added 15:23 - Apr 28
yet you claim to know of 'dressing room unrest' and to be privy to inside information when you claim 'players dont like playing for him'. I have found comments of players this season to be rather more in support of the manager. In fact to make such unsubstantiated claims about the manager, would suggest that you are a little prejudiced against Mr. Keane. good blog mr. marcotti!
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naa added 15:48 - Apr 28
Not a bad blog and fairly balanced but towards the end you start showing an undue bias against those who doubt RK.

For example: "A clear sign of this is when the goalposts start moving. For most of the season many were predicting relegation. When a mid-table position is achieved, the debate starts to revolve around the style of play."

I think you'll find that relegation worries were a big problem so once they were relieved people stopped worrying about it but started looking at other issues. It's natural. It doesn't mean they are determined to undermine RK or whatever it just means that once you can stop worrying about one thing you look at another.

Admittedly some on here are clearly anti-RK whatever happens but I like to think that while I've been very critical of RK I've at least always been fair.

I'm worried about his scouting network - shown by the Sunderland bunch. That isn't in idle criticism, it's a worrying sign that he just doesn't have the contacts. And he has spent a lot of money to get the number of successful signings he has (not helped my Martin and Priskin failing, of course). Hopefully this summer he can put that worry to bed.

I'm also worried about the style of play. I appreciate that maybe we had to scrap out of relegation to an extent but he has talked about adding more steel, implied we should timewaste and perform niggly fouls to see out games etc etc. Nothing he has said suggests that we will be playing with much flair in the coming season. That is depressing to me.

I hope you're right that he's building a team and the style will follow once we're in the Prem but personally I can't see that happening. A style can't just be imposed once you've got where you want to be (especially in a division as tough as the Premier) - just look at what happened to Bolton when they tried to change.

Obviously, I hope I'm wrong on all this. I have nothing against RK, I just want to watch decent football and see us succeed.

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DrJeckyll added 16:14 - Apr 28
When he says he wants 'characters' or 'real men', he is not just talking about players who graft, he is talking about players who turn up on the big occasion, rise to a challenge, not wilt under it, players with a winning mentality, never say die attitude. These kind of players, by their very nature, will have half decent skills as well, but skills alone will get you nowhere. Take the holder of the world record for 'keepy ups', obviously very talented at manipulating the ball, but not a professional footballer
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Lightningboy added 16:23 - Apr 28
"The corner turned"?!!...why?..because we're not quite as crap as we were at the beginning of the season?

Come on..some people are seriously clutching at straws on this site.

The corner will be turned when Keane is out of the car.
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naa added 17:01 - Apr 28
Dr Jekyll: good point. I hope that's true but only the summer will tell, as our midfield at the moment has no creativity in it and Butt will not add to that (as useful an addition as he may be).

Our summer signings will tell us a lot about where RK wants to take this team. At the moment none of us really know.
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Daleyitfc added 20:55 - Apr 28
I freely admit to being 'prejudiced' against Roy Keane because of his playing past : he was a cynical thug, with no discernible talent, who bludgeoned his way through his playing career, and was at all times an obvious weak link within the teams that he played. He was not a 'winner' : he was an executioner.
In the same way that I would not want Gary Glitter to come and teach children pop music, there should be no place for a man like Keane at a club like Ipswich Town.
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jbb added 21:34 - Apr 28
captain obvious and hype313: I believe (and stated in my blog) that supporters are entitled to have doubts about managers (or indeed players), as long as they continue to support the team and wish them success. But I have seen comments where people were wishing the club to lose. It is my opinion that we have turned the corner. It is my very strong judgement, that there wont be a flop next season.
A bull in a china shop? An example - I have seen many managers resenting players like Wickham, established as a first team player, being called up by u17,18 international sides. They argue such players should be beyond that level. RK encourages such call ups, he was delighted that the player was getting the opportunity to play international football with kids of his own age.Sounds like an understanding manager to me. No wonder Wickham is thriving. Dont believe the stereotypical image, he woudnt have the confidence of good characters like Norris, McAuley, Walters & Delaney if he wasnt fair and honest (maybe too much so, if that is possible) and there are lots of devious managers around. From what I can see there are few, if any, Sunderland players who wouldnt sign for him (well apart from Diouf and Yorke, enough said).

Naa: We all like to watch flair players, but most decent opposition would take 5 minutes to find out Counago, however much we would have wished he could be the answer. There were some talented footballers bought last season who didnt work out, eg Priskin. Flair alone is never enough, if it hasnt got a bit of backbone behind it. It builds your hopes up and let you down. A team has to be built in stages.The club hasnt got the funds to totally dismantle the squad. I think the difference with Bolton is that they went from one style to the other overnight. He is not building a team in the image of Bolton or Stoke. Allardyce's football background and philosophy is far from RK's. Though D. Murphy and Wickham are big, attacking the ball in the air is not their main strength. Leadbitter, his biggest signing, to me is a good footballer, not a centre half playing in midfield. It will be a varied game, and more fluent football will follow when more pieces are added to the jigsaw. I think he is here for the long haul.I believe the likes of Butt would help the style of football, supporting the play, plugging the gaps, giving freedom to other midfielders to make runs (Nolan, Newcastle). I dont recall RK the player as a diver or a cheat. I think his point is that sometimes in professional football, you have to be able to grind out results, which can mean killing the game a little at certain times.
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marchy added 21:55 - Apr 28
Firstly, I utterly support the club and wish them nothing but success whoever's at the helm. Nevertheless.
Think what you will of RK and of the quality of the team he inherited, but the fact remains that last season we finished 9th, and that did not result from a year's worth of fluke - the table doesn't lie. He was brought in to turn a team not far from being play-off candidates into a team that could challenge for promotion. If he'd been brought in to turn a Conference side into Champions League contenders, that might take a little more than a year and require a bit of an overhaul. But as it was, we required a few improvements in the right places, and we should have still been in a position to mount a challenge. Yet having spent several millions reshaping the squad to his design (mostly on crap, too - knowing what we know now, give me Tommy Miller over Martin and Edwards any day,) it took 15 matches to get the same points on the board that he did in three games last season with the old squad, and the highest we've been in the league all this season was alphabetically before the opening game. That can only be seen as a failure, especially for someone with supposed calibre and, we assume, the salary to match. We may have turned a corner, but we still walked a long way in the wrong direction.
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naa added 10:15 - Apr 29
marchy: I agree. Thing is while we all think that the old squad needed a bit of quality the fact is that it wasn't a squad built in RK's image. He has very different ideas on the types of player he wants, which is why he made so many changes, and wants to make another 5 (that is an awful lot after a season of heavy change).

This is what worries me, people can say all they like about how we will play nice football eventually and how flair isn't enough etc etc but I just don't agree.

You always need flair, but that flair should be protected - e.g Holland protecting Dyer in midfield in the Burley days. I'm not asking for the team to be full of flair, just one or two players with skill and style. So far RK is showing that he doesn't want that.

You can say all you like about Leadbitter's quality but the fact remains that I have yet to see him control a midfield the way Garvan was doing when he was 18 and he certainly doesn't have the eye for a pass that Garvan has.

I rate Leadbitter, don't get me wrong, but our midfield is flat and dull with Norris alongside him. They both have energy and are great at making runs but without the player there to get the pass to them in the first place those runs are worthless.

Anyway, this is all talk. He might buy a bunch of flair players in the summer for all I know!
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jbb added 11:13 - Apr 29
I am certain that no one would have wished more than RK that Garvan could have developed the qualities necessary to be a top player. But JM also realised the deficiencies.
I still hope he develops the urgency, hunger, concentration, mental & physical toughness necessary to be a top player, all ugly words but essential. I think Dyer had all of those qualities on the field.
The reality is that to get a chance to play (especially in the championship) you need players who can first win the fight. If the CM battleground is lost, as it too often is with Garvan, you have no chance.
Unfortunately he hasnt got the pace for wide midfield.
In modern football a lot of the attacking impetus comes from overlapping full backs. I would like to see two new attacking full backs, Butt, D. Murphy and a new pacy wide player/striker.
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MBG added 18:28 - Apr 29
I’m not prejudiced against RK and can’t give a toss about his background. The only thing I care about is how he performs as manager at the club that I love. I think I’m being sober rather than prejudiced when I say he’s badly underachieved. The fact is he didn’t take over a team in the bottom half of the table and he’s spent heaps by Championship standards and for what result? I also want to see him getting attention for how his team performs on the pitch rather than his entertainment value at press conferences.

I was amused by the comment that “without much further improvement, will leave the club in contention for the play-off positions next season.” Wow! This after all the noises RK made about how promotion was achievable within two seasons. Every Town fan wants the best for the club. But we have to be realists and make a judgement on the evidence so far and it ain’t pretty. jbb thinks we’ll be promoted next season. I hope he’s right and that he comes back on this site and crows about it. But what is it really based on? Is it because RK is a “winner”, “uncompromising in his standards”, “won’t tolerate second best” blah, blah……. It seems jbb and others have fallen for the RK myth. Who really is the prejudiced one?

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jbb added 10:14 - Apr 30
MBG: No it is not based on any of those things. The negative views of many people, nor referring to the prejudiced few, are as a result of the poor run at the start of the season. It is very common when a new manager takes over that after an initial good spell, with players anxious to impress, a slump follows due to new ideas and players being introduced, and players feeling uncertain about their future. If you are basing your opinion of the future solely on the this years finishing position, I think your are mistaken.

Agreed he didnt take over a team in the bottom half and he could have introduced change more gradually. It would have made this season a lot less traumatic, and short term would have made life easier for himself. But would we be any better off for next season? As much as we can be sentimental for players departing, the harsh reality is that those players, with Counago, Quinn, Bruce, Stead,etc to follow, were not going to take the club forward. We can argue the Rhodes departure, and at the time RK admitted some misgivings, but any of the others who lost favour, can have no complaint.

I certainly dont fall for myths. RK reached the very top as a player, I dont expect him to do so as manager, but I think he can be a very good manager for this club. He certainly can have a vindictive side, and shooting from the hip at press conferences does not do him any favours, but I can see the players now responding to him. He is hard, but honest and fair. He is retaining the best of JM's squad, and while a couple of this seasons signings havent worked out, in general I think his judgement on players is fairly sound.

I have no doubt that the club will be in top 7/8 all next season. That isnt based on crystal ball gazing, but purely on a continuation of form from the end of last October. Further improvement obviously depends on recruitment, whether the likes of Butt (hopefully player coach) & D.Murphy can be signed and the continued development of Wickham. Obviously the financial strength of relegated clubs is going to make it harder, but I forecast top 3/4.His net spend so far is £6m, which is not that high by current championship standards.

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MBG added 15:05 - Apr 30
jbb: It seems to me there are far too many Town fans awe-struck by RK. The signs do not point to promotion but I hope I’m proved wrong. We’ll see.

By the way, your word count in posts far exceeds the word count of your blog! There seem to be too many bloggers who write their piece and then duck in and out to provide explanations, clarifications, rationalizations……… I reckon a blog should stand on its own merits. Still, I appreciate the effort.
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wark_on_water added 08:27 - May 1
Hype313 - I agree that keane has a hard and winning persona. However you can'tuse this as an excuse for players not performing! professional footballers at any level need to be man enough to accept manager's opinions and ideals. It's not a profession for shrinking violets and this season will show him which players he can depend on and turn the team into winners - not just a nice bunch of guys!
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Surco72 added 12:56 - May 1
I will comment on just one point No.6 good signings and value for money -
Delaney agreed after rocky start ,Colback good loan signing but for me thats it ,
B Murphy and O connor to early to say , Leadbitter for £3.5 million expected a lot more (Adam at Blackpool half a million) certainly not value for money so far ,Lee Barret ok but out of his depth and Murphy has scored the same amount as Stead in a lot more starts and regular football so no better than what we had .
Then you have the rest Priskin,Healy,Martin,Edwards all very poor,new contracts to Bruce and Trotter, loan signings of Rosenoir no better than Wright ,Stern John,Healy overall Keanes signings are a massive negative point rather than positive which is why having another 5 new players coming in is worrying
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jbb added 15:01 - May 1
Surco72: Sunderland were paid £3.5m for Leadbitter and Edwards, of which £1m would have been for Edwards. I would consider Leadbitter, considering his age, to be good value at that price.
I think if you now value all of RK's 9/10 signings, some would have dropped in value, eg. Edwards, Martin, Priskin (though who is to say that in 12 months time, their value wont be back up, especially as the latter two are young) but some will certainly have increased (B. Murphy, O'Connor, Delaney). If you were to place a value on all, I dont think you would come up with less than the net spend of £6m.
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